Meet Kate Johnson, a former attorney turned Certified Cannabis Educator and Coach. Join us as we hear her inspiring journey, explore the potential of cannabis for wellness, and learn how it’s possible to live life to the fullest while using cannabis intentionally.
Table of Contents
- Release Date: Monday, October 16, 2023
- Episode Number: Season 1, Episode 58
- Special Guest: Kate Johnson, founder of Your Kush Coach
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Episode 58: From Law Books to Cannabis Plants: A Lawyer’s Journey to Becoming a Cannabis Coach with Kate Johnson
Why You Will Love This Episode
With a successful legal career, a beautiful family, and enduring friendships, Kate is living proof that responsible cannabis use can coexist with, and even enhance, a fulfilling life.
She has relied on this healing plant to navigate her own complexities and challenges. Her mission is to encourage others to do the same and help navigate their paths.
This is why Kate left behind her legal career and became a Certified Cannabis Educator and Health Coach, Professional Interpener (Cannabis Sommelier), and founder of the Cannabis Industry Association of Wisconsin.
She’s passionate about helping others discover how they can find balance and reach their highest potential with intentional cannabis use.
Join us in this enlightening episode as Kate shares her insights, tips, and her personal journey from law books to cannabis plants.
Kate: I feel like I work for the plant. I feel like I’m the hype man for cannabis. That’s my role in the world. And if I can get more people excited about it and help them understand that you can live this really beautiful and full life with it, that’s my goal. That’s my mission.
Announcer: Welcome to the Well With Cannabis Podcast, a show dedicated to telling the life-changing stories of those who live well with cannabis all while teaching you how to do the same. Meet your host, Emily Kyle, a registered dietitian nutritionist turned certified holistic cannabis practitioner. Emily changed her life for the better with the help of the cannabis plant, and now she’s committed to helping others do the same.
Tune in each week to hear heartwarming stories and gain the knowledge you need to feel connected, inspired, and supported on your own cannabis journey. Whether you’re a new cannabis consumer or a lifetime lover, you’ll benefit from these uplifting tales of real-life journeys that will show you how you, too, can live your best life well with cannabis.
Disclaimer: Hi there. Before we jump into today’s episode, I wanted to share a note on potentially sensitive content. The episodes on the Well With Cannabis Podcast are created for adult audiences only. We will, at times, cover sensitive topics, including but not limited to suicide, abuse, mental illness, sex, drugs, alcohol, psychedelics, and the obvious use of plant medicine. Explicit language may be used occasionally. Please refrain from watching or listening to the show if you’re likely to be offended or adversely impacted by any of these topics.
The information on this show is for informational and educational purposes only. It does not constitute medical advice. If any of the content on this podcast has brought up anything for you, please reach out or speak to a professional or someone you trust.
Emily: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Well With Cannabis podcast. I’m so excited to be here with Ms. Kate Johnson. We have interacted a few times over the internet, but to be here in real life is super exciting. She is a certified cannabis coach and educator at YourKushCoach.com, and we’re going to be talking about her journey toward becoming a cannabis coach and what that looked like. So welcome, Kate. Thank you so much for being here with me today.
Kate: Thank you so much, Emily. It is absolutely an honor to be here. I’m such a fan. I’ve been a regular newsletter reader for so long and really saw you develop and expand. And it’s just been such a beautiful example of what cannabis educators can do. So thank you. Very honored to be here.
Emily: Thank you so much. And I’m excited to talk about your experience coming into working with cannabis because I find so many people that I talk to, especially here on the podcast, started with this very professional career and really feel this desire and this draw to be in the cannabis space. But that is a terrifying leap to make. So, talk us through your journey and how you went from working in the legal profession to being a successful cannabis coach.
Kate: Yeah, sure. So I. I’ve been a cannabis user almost my entire life. So, for more than 25 years. I started using it when I was in high school, and I never looked back. It just worked so beautifully with my system. I just loved it. We knew little about that in 1995 when I started, but I was always drawn to it, and it was always part of my life. I’ve never been without it for that whole time, but it’s always been very separate from my work.
Kate: I was pre-med and a biology major in college, so very serious and cerebral. And while all my friends used cannabis too, it wasn’t something that you connected with your work, future career, or anything like that. I ended up going to law school and have practiced now for 15 years, which was great.
Kate: I loved the employers that I had. It was a wonderful workplace, but I was really out of alignment with that work. It just felt like it wasn’t me, no matter what I did. I was growing increasingly disconnected from and a lot of times, I’d be in a meeting in a dissociated state where I was almost floating above myself, watching a version of myself pretend to care about this, while the real me on the inside just didn’t, and that’s hard.
Kate: And started asking myself the question, “How did I get here? How did I get here? Why am I in this job? Why?” We’re in an achievement-based society, where we do as much school as possible and get the highest-paying job, and that’s a success. No one ever stops to ask you along the way, “What do you like to do? What lights you up? What’s your contribution to the world?” It sounds simple, but it was very profound and freeing to say that just because I’m capable of this complicated, difficult job doesn’t mean that’s what I have to do.
Kate: In a parallel path, a couple of years ago, the cannabis industry was growing and flourishing. I had my eye on it and got involved in fits and starts, but it was never quite right. I actually found cannabis educating and cannabis coaching, almost jokingly, on Google. A girlfriend of mine and I were on a walk, and she told me that I’d be such a great life coach because I’m always lifting people up. I was told that I needed to be a life coach for weed. So I Googled “cannabis coach,” and I found the Cannabis Coaching Institute, where I got my cannabis education. It’s incredible, and I highly recommend checking them out. They have a cannabis coaching program and a cannabis-certified educator program.
Kate: And it was like, this is what I meant to do. I was already the self-taught cannabis nerd educating her friends, always talking about terpenes. I kept my day job and went through the Cannabis Coaching Institute on nights and weekends. I set aside a little savings fund so that I could make the leap, and then the day came when it was time to go full-time. So, that was my journey.
Emily: That is an incredible journey. And I feel so many parallels with you. I feel like we’ve had a very similar experience, especially because just a few years ago, our culture was changing, and it really was so much easier and has continued to become so much easier to talk about cannabis publicly.
Emily: At first, I was scared because it wasn’t normal, but now I’ll say cannabis anywhere, anytime, about anything to anyone. And I think for anybody listening, if you’re wondering if you have that pull, like we both had to do something bigger or more, and you feel like it’s in the cannabis space, my biggest suggestion always is to get started now.
Emily: Don’t wait, because now is the time people are becoming so interested in cannabis and working in the cannabis industry. And I think it’s a great place and time to make a name for yourself. So, I’d love for you to walk us through for anybody who’s listening and has no clue what a cannabis coach does. Can you give us a little bit of background on what a day looks like, who you help, and who could benefit from a cannabis coach?
Kate: Yeah, absolutely. There’s a distinction between a cannabis coach and a cannabis educator. Cannabis coaching consists of a close, one-on-one relationship with the client. As a coach, I offer a personal cannabis consultation where we talk in-depth about why you’re approaching cannabis and what you’re trying to address. You may be coming to cannabis recreationally out of curiosity. We’ll talk about your experience with cannabis and what has worked or not for you in the past.
Kate: We’ll figure out what is going to be the best path for you, the best products for you, dosing, and timing. I’ll come up with a specific plan that we work together on to get you feeling better with the plant. Now, when I say cannabis, that could be CBD if that fits better with your lifestyle. There’s nothing wrong with THC, but there is a time and place for it and many other options.
Emily: Yeah. I always say cannabis is like that umbrella term for all of it.
Kate: Yes, absolutely. We live in this exciting time where you can smoke, you can vape, you can take an edible, you could have a patch, you can drink a seltzer. There’s all sorts of ways to incorporate this into your life, and that’s what coaches mainly do.
Kate: Certified Cannabis Educators is a little broader, where you’re really blasting out that information and education about the plant. I really love both of those, and it’s a really fun and exciting thing to do because we’re creating it as we go. I’m part of the graduate cohort from the Cannabis Coaching Institute, and we all stay in close touch and have networking groups, some that CCI runs officially and others that have organically grown from it. They’re all doing something different with what they’re most aligned with.
Kate: Some of them are doing courses on how to make your own tinctures. Some of them are doing more integrative life coaching. People are doing all sorts of things, including nutrition, like your specialty in creating cannabis-infused dinner experiences. You can do a lot with it, and I think we’re still tapping into all of the possibilities.
Kate: One thing that really resonates with me is that you don’t have to own a grow or extraction facility to be in the cannabis space. You can be on the educational side. I love the plant so much. I feel like I work for the plant like I’m the hype man for cannabis. That’s my role in the world, and my goal is to get more people excited about it and get them to understand that you can live this really beautiful and full life with it. That’s my mission.
Emily: And then it feels so aligned, and you feel so fulfilled in your work. When I worked as a dietitian in the hospital, I did not feel fulfilled in my work. But now, when I hear from people who tell me that this plant has enhanced their lives or through my work, I feel my purpose has been fulfilled, too.
Emily: There are two things I want to say about cannabis coaching for any listeners out there thinking about working with a cannabis coach. The very best part about cannabis coaching is that it’s the literal opposite of our current medical system. You’re working one-on-one with someone, and they are making a tailored and personalized plan. I think that is the future of medicine, and I think it is really incredible work that you’re doing. So, if anybody out there is interested in a real practitioner who cares about you as a whole, a cannabis coach might be the perfect place to get started on your journey.
Emily: I know that many people are listening out there who want to start a cannabis business but are too scared even to say it out loud. Perhaps they don’t believe that that is a possibility for them, or they can do it. But I think if people could just jump over the fear, they could get started. What advice do you have for them on getting over that first hurdle?
Kate: That’s a great question, and I really feel that I had that fear and that self-doubt and imposter syndrome. Even though I know everything about the plant, I still have imposter syndrome. Sometimes it’s just natural. Everybody feels that way.
Emily: There is still so much we don’t know about cannabis, so I sometimes wonder how I can be an expert on something that we still have so much to learn about. I feel like this should be freeing to people, in a way, because cannabis is fluid. It’s constantly changing and improving. Just because you don’t know everything doesn’t mean you can’t jump in.
Kate: I feel the same way, but I think that we know all there is to know right now. All there is to know right now is what we know. And that’s all we know about anything on earth. That’s all medicine knows; is all we know right now.
Kate: And that’s just the best of it. You always caveat, ‘This is the best of our knowledge’. Just like what we used to think is now different from what we’re thinking now and might be different in the future. We know that there are still questions; that’s just progress.
Kate: Getting comfortable with that mindset is one thing that the Cannabis Coaching Institute was huge on. Whether you go there or not, I think taking the time and space to dig into those feelings is important. Question where your lack of confidence and fear are coming from. Is it just conditioning that you need to unlearn? Doing that deep inner work is critical, or you’ll be scared off after the first challenge.
Kate: I’m a planner, a really Type A person. I had to have my ducks in a row before I felt confident enough to do it. I’ve got a family and kids, so it’s not something I take lightly. If you feel the call, start taking steps. That journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. A little consistent action each day will get you toward your goal. Maybe it’s your secret for now, and then maybe, when you’re ready, you’ll tell a couple of friends.
Kate: My friends were so excited for me. They understood that this would be something much more aligned with me. They were happy for me. They were proud and inspired that somebody would do this, so I think you could be surprised at how the people in your life may react.
Emily: I couldn’t agree more. Everything you said was so spot on. We have this fear that people will react a certain way, and like you said, many people react in a way you didn’t even expect and are so happy for you and supportive. I think that’s a really beautiful thing, and even if people aren’t happy and supportive, ultimately, at the end of the day, it’s your life.
Emily: There is freedom in being an entrepreneur; maybe you’ve seen this too. There is freedom in building a business and a life that you truly love; nothing else really matters. You can let those people go and be happy with yourself and what you’re doing. You don’t need to worry about the rest.
Kate: When I was an attorney, I worked as an in-house counsel in a large organization. I saw many people who seemed so unhappy, but they had built this infrastructure. They get this paycheck, so they now have a cabin and a boat. They feel so trapped like they cannot make a change. That was a cautionary tale to me. We think they’re successful, but you could tell that they weren’t bringing their whole selves to work. I don’t know what they liked, but it wasn’t that job. That wasn’t a success.
Kate: In my view, we make the world a better place by figuring out what lights you up, and then you help light up other people about it. If everyone did that, it would make the world a better place, whether what lights you up is cannabis or mountain biking.
Kate: I think that during the pandemic, people saw other ways to live and make money. We only have one life, and nobody knows how short that will be. People are excited about doing things how they want to and having the freedom to create a world we want to live in. As you said, it’s the perfect time to get started.
Kate: If the cannabis plant is calling you, you almost can’t ignore it. My fellow coaches and I can’t listen to it because we feel so strongly about it. I feel like it’s a good time to mention that, for me, the cannabis plant is all about connection, my ability to connect with somebody else. When I use it, I can connect with my authentic self much more clearly and see the other person and their authenticity. I can see the connection of all of nature, and it’s the feeling of true connection that I think a lot of people are yearning for right now.
Kate: That’s the message that I want to put out. I can help you do that. Cannabis helps you check in, not check out. There are people to help you understand how to use it. Coaches and educators are here to help you learn how much of an edible to take, what the timing is, and what will help you through this so that you don’t have bad experiences. You can just jump right over to the good experiences.
Emily: I have goosebumps because the message is always the same when I’ve been recording these interviews. I feel like we don’t always say it, but cannabis brings you to yourself. It introduces you to your highest self in the best way possible. To hear everybody say that in their own way but tie together this common theme, I think, is one of this plant’s most magical untold benefits.
Emily: Many people are coming for anxiety relief or pain relief, but cannabis use, proper cannabis use, is so much more than that. It can enrich and enhance the quality of your life so much more than that. I feel like some of us have to tell other people, and then it snowballs. That’s where becoming a cannabis coach could fulfill that desire for many people listening because if you have that burning flame inside, you have to chase it.
Emily: As someone who’s been in business, I guess I’ve been in business for eight years. My business looks extremely different today than it did when it started. And I always keep reminding myself that I will probably have to run this business for another 30 or 40 years. It’s going to look different then.
Emily: I want people to know when they’re getting started; it’s not perfect when you start. It doesn’t even have to be a thing when you start. Like you said, those little steps lead to the journey, but you can’t wait for things to be perfect. You can’t wait for the right time. If you just have that inner calling, I want you to listen to it and follow it and not worry about the rest.
Emily: Your journey is going to evolve and blossom in a really beautiful way, and it might take you down a path you never thought you would be down. But at the end of the day, both of us are sitting here, successful cannabis entrepreneurs showing people that it’s absolutely possible. And while it might not happen overnight, patience and persistence make it possible for so many people.
Kate: Yes, your career is a great example of that because you didn’t start with what it is now. Slowly but surely, you’ve added all of your recipes and the community and products, and expanded little by little. I couldn’t start the business you run now eight years in. You don’t start that on day one. There’s a bit of compare and despair that we’ve got to get rid of in general.
Kate: The other piece is that when you’re following your heart and going down a path you love, things naturally expand and fall into place. When you’re following your alignment and are genuinely excited about the doors that open, the right opportunities come at the right times. I’ve experienced that in a way that I never saw in 15 years of legal work.
Emily: If you ask the universe for what you want and say it out loud and put in those progressive steps to get there, you will get what you want. I’ve actually had to learn to ask the universe for bigger things. I have things in my life that I never dreamed I would ever have, and I always attribute it to cannabis. If I didn’t have cannabis, I wouldn’t be me, and my journey wouldn’t be where it is today. Now I have this business, and I’m also thankful for cannabis, but so many people think that cannabis is a hindrance or will prevent you from excelling in your career.
Emily: But my career now is on steroids compared to whatever could have been if I had never introduced cannabis, and I don’t know if you experience this, but as a professional, when I was a registered dietitian, I thought my license would be at stake if I talked about cannabis. I thought I’d never get another job in a hospital again as when I talked about cannabis. Did you feel the same as an attorney? I thought my whole tribe would turn their backs on me, and it didn’t happen that way.
Kate: I definitely felt that. I think, particularly at the beginning. Now it’s legal for medical use in 40, 40-ish states, and legal for adult use in 20-ish states. It’s really coming into the consciousness a lot more. About five years ago, I had to have a very uncomfortable conversation with the top legal counsel at my last job. I founded the Cannabis Industry Association of Wisconsin, which was a cannabis advocacy group for cannabis entrepreneurs in the state. I had to disclose it because I was a certain level of employee, and there was a technical reason due to a position I held, so I had to tell her what I was doing. She was great. She told me that she wanted people to do what they believe in, feel supported, and feel like they can speak their minds. Not everybody is like that.
Kate: I definitely felt that then, and I still feel the stigma. I’ve been using cannabis my whole life, and the majority of my friends use it. There is still a stigma. People still think that you’re that mythical stoner on the couch. Part of my message is that I’ve lived a conventionally successful life using cannabis regularly the entire time. I graduated from a top law school with children and a spouse; my life has not fallen apart. Quite the opposite, my life has been helped. My connections with my spouse, friends, and children are all aided by cannabis, not hindered by it.
Kate: We haven’t gotten into cannabis and parenting, but that’s a big thing too, especially with mothers coming out of the cannabis closet. A lot of people have this misconception that you take it and then pass it out on the couch. That’s not even close to what happens. I have the most beautiful connection with my children; I can see right into their little souls when I take it. I am so much more patient. I feel the world through their eyes in a way that really helps me be present, have fun, and relax with them. A lot of moms use wine because it’s available, even though they don’t like how it makes them feel. That’s part of the message, that there’s another option. Let me help you get the right amount, the right type, and everything for you to nicely and supportively incorporate it positively.
Emily: Everything that you just said is everything that I want to represent this podcast and everybody who’s so successful who uses cannabis. I’m successful because I’m using cannabis. I have achieved all of these things because I’m using cannabis. Had I not used cannabis, the outcome would have been different. And I am breaking every social stigma. You are breaking every social stigma by coming out and saying that.
Emily: And so I just wanted to say thank you so much because that’s the core message that I’m trying to amplify to the world, to whoever was lied to and told that this was going to hinder your life. With the work and help of a cannabis coach, this can enhance the quality of your life, the productivity of your life, and your enjoyment. And that is what I want people to take away from this: you can make life better.
Kate: And I think where we fit into it is getting that message out and then following it up with offering to help you how to use it. That’s what your site does, and recipes do in the community and all that. And that’s what the other service I have is the Dispensary Decoder. Based on our conversation, it’s a quick service where I tell you what to look for and what to avoid when you go to the dispensary. I also recommend doses so you feel empowered when you go.
Kate: I always equate it to walking into a liquor store and not knowing what anything is. You have no idea, and you’re scared. Many people are ready to try it, but they’re afraid of walking out of the dispensary with the wrong thing, looking dumb, or not knowing the right words to say to the budtender. My friend had a horrible experience with edibles and got way too high. So, I’m trying to help you navigate what will work for you for what you need it for.
Kate: That’s what cannabis coaches and educators do, in part, is really help. My goal is to give you practical advice to help you feel confident that you can use cannabis and get the results that you want.
Emily: So tell me more about YourKushCoach.com, your business, so anybody listening can find you.
Kate: Thank you. Right now, I’m offering the 30-minute quick Dispensary Decoder consultations to give you confidence and explain some of the words you’ll see, such as indica hybrid, etc. It’s not an exact science, and it’s not perfect. I’ll let you know about your experiences and what to look for. Knowledge is power.
Kate: There’s a longer, more involved service, the Personal Cannabis Consultation, that’s going deeper and coming up with a plan for you. Your plan includes dosing, timing, and product recommendations. I also do workshops and did a really fun workshop on How to Love Cannabis and Have it Love You Back, which is really what I want for people.
Kate: I’m working on my blog as a place for accurate information. As we’ve noted, it’s hard to know who to trust, and there’s so much information out there, some good, some not so good. And to your earlier point, we still don’t know a lot. I want you to have a good experience, so I want to be a source of reliable information for you.
Kate: That’s an overview of my services, which are all listed on my site. I offer a free Discovery Call, of course, if you’re not sure which services are for you. I’m excited to see what unfolds and which opportunities come up. I’m here for the journey.
Emily: That is amazing. You have built a successful, incredible business. It’s exciting to see what other people are doing, being successful, and helping other people. It just feels so full circle. Cannabis continues to give and create these wonderful communities and connections. We get to have this conversation and spark interest in people.
Emily: I’ve not really had a business-focused podcast here. If this is something that interests you, listeners, let us know. It’s not something we’ve covered before, but I think it’s cool to discuss. I could talk about business all day. I could go on a tangent. It’s just so exciting to have control of your own life and what you’re doing and what you’re putting out into the world and feel satisfaction in the work that you’re doing. I can see the pride that you have for your business. I’m so proud and happy for you. Suppose people want to connect on social media. Are you on social media as well?
Kate: I am, I’m probably not as good about it as I should be. On Instagram, I’m @yourkushoach_ and on Facebook, I am Your Kush Coach. I am probably a little more sporadic than I should be. I need to be a little bit more disciplined in it. But what I find is that it starts to suck up my time and I take a step back and then I’m back on and I take a step back.
Emily: We can have a whole business podcast just about that in and of itself. Any last words of wisdom for someone who’s thinking about becoming a cannabis coach?
Kate: I think, like we’ve said, listen to your heart. Listen to that spark inside. Carve out some time in your day in your life to be still, to be, to breathe, to journal, whatever your process is to really connect with what your heart is calling you to do.
Kate: Take time to reflect and ask yourself what the next step is and how you could take it. What is your big vision, and how do you break it down into smaller steps to get there? Sometimes the big vision feels very big and scary and hard to get to, but start with the first step and take it one at a time from there.
Kate: Trust that if you’re feeling a pull, there’s a good reason for it. It’s not going to go away. I felt that pull for so long until education and coaching came along. When you start feeling the pull, look around and trust yourself to make a plan and follow through.
Emily: That is the best advice. And before I let you go, I ask all my guests the same four questions. Are you ready for them?
Kate: I am.
Emily: Perfect. The first one. What are you most proud of in your life to date?
Kate: I think it is a lot of what we focused on, which is having the courage to make a huge change in my life in the pursuit of happiness. I was feeling really burned out as a lawyer toward the end, and I saw this quote by Lao Tzu, an ancient Chinese philosopher with many very wise quotes. It was, “If you do not change direction, you may end up where you’re heading.” I realized that I could stay a stressed-out lawyer in a stressed-out lawyer job for the rest of my life. I needed to change direction, and I’m proud that I had the courage to do that.
Emily: I’m proud of you too. That’s amazing. This is everybody’s least favorite question. What do you think your life would look like without cannabis?
Kate: I think I would probably be drinking a lot more than I want. I see a lot of my friends in that situation. They’re stuck in this cycle even though they know it makes them feel yucky, and don’t like it. Alcoholics raised me, and it was a horrible, chaotic childhood. I promised myself that I would not do that, but it’s easy to repeat the cycles you were raised in.
Kate: We all also need to wind down at the end of the day; many people feel like alcohol is their only option for relaxation. Can we all just admit that and get that guilt off of our chest? Life is hard for everybody, and we all need to unwind in whatever way we want to at the end of the day. I don’t want to drink alcohol because I think it leads to a lot of problems, so I’m thankful to cannabis for that.
Kate: I also think of the connection, as we’ve talked about, to myself. It allows me to check in with myself, and I feel that without cannabis, I would lose my number one tool to feel alignment and a deep, soul-level connection with myself and others. I can’t imagine being without that. My life wouldn’t be as fulfilling.
Emily: Absolutely. If you could go back ten years ago and whisper a little piece of advice related to cannabis to yourself, what would it be?
Kate: I love this. There’s a beautiful quote from Rumi. I love these two quotes. I had to bring them up. “You wander from room to room hunting for the diamond necklace that is already around your neck.” We all have inherent worth. We all have our gifts. When somebody makes you feel like you’re not good enough or they cut you down, you start looking for external validation. You start looking for what people think you’re good for. That was my story. But it’s what I had on the inside that really counts. Everyone has that. Don’t look outside for it. Look inward, courageously.
Emily: That’s beautiful. If you could be remembered for just one thing in the cannabis space, what would it be?
Kate: Getting people excited. I want to be somebody who uplifts others. I can’t help myself. I love this plant. I’m excited about it. And I want to excite other people about it and uplift them by my experience and encouragement. I love to encourage people to do what they actually want. I’m always here to support and give people grace. People may not remember what you say, but they’ll remember how you made them feel. That’s what I’m going for.
Emily: I have felt it today. You have uplifted, you have energized, and I’m excited. I thank you so much for coming, sharing your wisdom, and offering all that you have learned and all of the benefits of the plant and how it has touched your life.
Emily: I’m so glad we have connected. I look forward to staying in touch in the future. And thank you for doing this with me today. I really appreciate
Kate: it. Thank you so much. This has been wonderful. I love it so much. I appreciate the opportunity.
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